Bendix/King and VHF question

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kerr
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Bendix/King and VHF question

Post by kerr » Mon Apr 28, 2008 11:49 pm

I do a lot of Mis-sim training with paintball and airsoft. I was recently turned on to Bendix/King radios. FRS was just not working with the range and the amount of traffic on them. So I was thinking of using Bendix/King radios VHF radios because of their cost and the band they operat in. My questions that I have are as follows
1. What is the range on these ( I know that it is subjective but imagine in Oregon forest)?
2. Is it legal for me to use them?
3. What frequencies can I use?
4. Is there a place for me to buy used bulk radios? (I heard that the forestry department sells there old ones off.)
5. Can I use a few radios and make a repeater out of them?
6. Can I use a different antenna and get added range out of them.

Thanks in advance.
Amateurs train to get it right; professionals train to never get it wrong.

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ka7wnf
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Re: Bendix/King and VHF question

Post by ka7wnf » Tue Apr 29, 2008 9:12 am

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Multi-Use_Radio_Service
http://wireless.fcc.gov/services/index. ... =multi_use


MURS is the only unlicensed service in the VHF band, but there are limitations.


1. What is the range on these ( I know that it is subjective but imagine in Oregon forest)?
Hard to say, but will be better than FRS.
2. Is it legal for me to use them?
Yes
3. What frequencies can I use?
See the linked pages.
4. Is there a place for me to buy used bulk radios? (I heard that the forestry department sells there old ones off.)
E-Bay?
5. Can I use a few radios and make a repeater out of them?
Yes but not legally.
6. Can I use a different antenna and get added range out of them.
Yes.

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kerr
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Re: Bendix/King and VHF question

Post by kerr » Tue Apr 29, 2008 11:46 am

Thanks for the speedy response this info gets me going on the right direction.
Amateurs train to get it right; professionals train to never get it wrong.

k2hz
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Re: Bendix/King and VHF question

Post by k2hz » Tue Apr 29, 2008 11:53 am

The Bendix King radios are not approved and do not meet standards for MURS use so there is no way they can be legally used for your purposes.

Repeaters are not permitted for MURS use.

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kerr
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Re: Bendix/King and VHF question

Post by kerr » Tue Apr 29, 2008 12:27 pm

So what radio would you recommend for the propose I described above and below. The repeater thing isn't that important. Were just looking for a good radio that can cover a descent amount of range, and that is portable.

I’m looking for a range better than GMRS
With removable antenna ( for added range)
They should be durable, with replaceable parts.

I don’t mind getting a FCC permit if I need one. I’ve noticed that businesses use UHF and VHF radios so I assume that it can be done. Any advice?
Amateurs train to get it right; professionals train to never get it wrong.

k2hz
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Re: Bendix/King and VHF question

Post by k2hz » Tue Apr 29, 2008 3:27 pm

The only way you can use VHF frequencies for your purpose is on the MURS channels which have a 1W and narrow band restriction on the 151 MHz channels and 2W on the 154 MHz channels.

There seems to be a lack of interest by manufacturers in MURS radios since most now seem to be out of production. The Kenwood TK2100, Maxon MURS25 and Radio Shack 19-1210 are some examples.

The Motorola XTN series, models XV1100, XV2100 and XV2600 are supposed to be legal for MURS use if operated only on authorized MURS channels.

I did find one company that presently offers MURS radios:

http://www.gadgetshack.com/muthmiraintw.html

Your other, higher powered, alternative to FRS is GMRS which allows up to 50W and repeaters in the UHF band. Some channels are shared with FRS. It does require a license and the license covers only you and your immediate familly members so members of an unrelated group would each need their own license.

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kerr
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Re: Bendix/King and VHF question

Post by kerr » Tue Apr 29, 2008 3:39 pm

your the man... And the search continues..
Amateurs train to get it right; professionals train to never get it wrong.

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kerr
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Re: Bendix/King and VHF question

Post by kerr » Tue Apr 29, 2008 8:19 pm

k2hz wrote:Your other, higher powered, alternative to FRS is GMRS which allows up to 50W and repeaters in the UHF band. Some channels are shared with FRS. It does require a license and the license covers only you and your immediate familly members so members of an unrelated group would each need their own license.
So if I'm unable to use the BKs and they work in VHF who uses them (legally). I'm not opposed to getting a license if that’s what it takes. The next question is if the license is bought under a business is that good? I check out the MURS and they look nice. But the BKs really fit the mold for what we want to do.
Amateurs train to get it right; professionals train to never get it wrong.

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n9gik
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What is your use?

Post by n9gik » Wed Apr 30, 2008 7:09 am

What are you using them for? If it is non-commercial you can get your amateur licenses and do all kinds of things.

BUT everyone involved will need to get their own license. It isn't difficult, just demonstrate some technical knowledge and familiarity with the regulations. Check out http://www.hello-radio.org/ What it DOES allow you to do is almost limit-less.
I don't know much about 2-way radios but I'm over 50 and can't remember not having one around. Everything from Buddy and Citi-fone to Icom and Kenwood.

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kerr
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Re: Bendix/King and VHF question

Post by kerr » Wed Apr 30, 2008 10:30 am

I'll check it out thanks.
Amateurs train to get it right; professionals train to never get it wrong.

k2hz
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Re: Bendix/King and VHF question

Post by k2hz » Wed Apr 30, 2008 11:03 am

kerr wrote: So if I'm unable to use the BKs and they work in VHF who uses them (legally). I'm not opposed to getting a license if that’s what it takes. The next question is if the license is bought under a business is that good? I check out the MURS and they look nice. But the BKs really fit the mold for what we want to do.
A business license requires that you either be a commercial business entity or an educational, philanthropic or religious organization. An individual can not get a business license for non-commercial use.

k2hz
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Re: Bendix/King and VHF question

Post by k2hz » Wed Apr 30, 2008 11:29 am

If you decide you are eligible for a Business license there is a wide variety of equipment available that may be more attractive than the BK radios.

One issue with the BK units will be to find a service shop in your area that can program them for you. Parts and service can be an issue since BK radios are relatively rare.

You may want to check with local two-way service shops to see what they have to offer or can recommend you look for in used radios that they can support. A local shop can help you select a frequency and deal with the rather complex Business license application. If you can use an "itinerant" frequency, it will eliminate the additional expense of frequency coordination.

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kerr
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Re: Bendix/King and VHF question

Post by kerr » Wed Apr 30, 2008 11:36 am

The team that I work for has there own LLC and that is what I was thinking of working under. It’s the company that is looking to make a good commo system, and I’m the one doing the research. But to keep thinks simple I think were just going to run the MURs. But I would like to be able to present all the options at the next meeting.

Here are the systems that were looking at.
FRS/GMRS (Bad)
MURS (radios hard to find, doesn’t have all the features that were looking for)
B/K VHF (More legal issues)

FRS/GMRS (easy to get)
MURS ( no legal requirements)
B/K VHF (longer range, replaceable antenna, replaceable everything, easy to work on)

We use our equipment hard and need something that will last.
Please all you subject mater experts take a look at what I have put down and if you know of any thing I may have missed please let me know.
Amateurs train to get it right; professionals train to never get it wrong.

k2hz
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Location: Rochester, NY

Re: Bendix/King and VHF question

Post by k2hz » Wed Apr 30, 2008 12:02 pm

It sounds like the LLC may be eligible for a Business license. If your use is in various areas and not always at a specific venue, a Business itinerant channel may be appropriate.

An itinerant channel avoids the frequency coordination process but you may get conflicts with other itinerant users as you and they move their operations around.

There are a lot of good 5W portable Business radios made by Kenwood, Icom, Motorola, Vertex, Maxon etc.. I would consider local service support in deciding. If you get older used equipment that is not narrow band capable, you need to be aware you will have to switch to narrow band by 2013.

This is also a licensing issue, you can still get licensed for wide band but would need to either license for both wide and narrow band now or modify the license prior to 2013.

These are all issues I think a local shop can help you with.

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kerr
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Re: Bendix/King and VHF question

Post by kerr » Thu May 01, 2008 12:51 am

Sorry to be a bother with this but it seems like the more knowledge I get the more questions I get. I went to the FCC web site and have found out a lot about the MURS deal. My question is this. If the BK radios have a 5/2 watt option and can support the feqs and bandwidth why can’t I run them under the FCC regs? Is it because I have the capability to go to 5 watts and outside the MURS freqs?

After going on E-bay I have found a few MURS radios but the selection is limited.
Amateurs train to get it right; professionals train to never get it wrong.

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