3180 FleetSync sidetone

nmfire10 · Post by **nmfire10** » Thu Apr 13, 2006 11:05 am

Is there any way to make a continuous sidetone like with MDC1200. The only thing I can make this do it beep once after the PTT-ID is sent. I want a sidetone that is continuous for the entire delay time.

N3AAG · Post by **N3AAG** » Fri Apr 14, 2006 1:32 pm

I think that FleetSync use tone frequencies (not sub-tone!), therefore can't be used simultaneously with voice.

I can be wrong with tone/sub-tone frequencies, but I never seen feature, which enables continuous FleetSync in many different Kenwood radios and KPG-xx.

nmfire10 · Post by **nmfire10** » Fri Apr 14, 2006 8:44 pm

Say what??? I want a sidetone for the entire time leading up to the PTT-ID. Right now, it just beeps once the PTT-ID sent.

N3AAG · Post by **N3AAG** » Sat Apr 15, 2006 3:12 am

Yuu understand what I wrote above?

Now way to to it. Proposed reason above.

nmfire10 · Post by **nmfire10** » Sun Apr 16, 2006 12:46 pm

No, I don't understand because it makes no sense.

Can someone explain this that knows how to type and speak english properly?

N3AAG · Post by **N3AAG** » Sun Apr 16, 2006 5:34 pm

Tone frequencies - this is frequencies in range 300-3000 Hz. Sub-tone frequencies (which used in QT, DQT and in other signaling systems with continuous data transmitting) below 300 Hz.

As I suppose, FleetSync use frequencies including from tone range. But tone frequencies dedicated for voice transmittions!!!

KB1JHU · Post by **KB1JHU** » Mon Apr 17, 2006 12:02 am

AAG, he's not talking about CTCSS tones. Side tones are an audible beep that the transmitting radio makes.

N3AAG · Post by **N3AAG** » Mon Apr 17, 2006 3:11 am

2 KB1JHU

I understand it. I wrote about QT/CTCSS, only in case of NOT audible frequency range (aka sub-tone frequencies -- 0-300 Hz).

I suppose that FleetSync use frequencies incl. audible.

But voice transmittions also use audible frequencies.

How you imagine simulation transmitting of voice & audible tones with approx. some level???

nmfire10 · Post by **nmfire10** » Mon Apr 17, 2006 9:43 am

N3AAG, I appriciate you trying to answer my questions. However I nor anyone else can understand anything you are saying. It makes no sense and it isn't answering anything.

So, for everyone else, sidetone, Yes or No?

k2hz · Post by **k2hz** » Mon Apr 17, 2006 12:50 pm

nmfire10 wrote:N3AAG, I appriciate you trying to answer my questions. However I nor anyone else can understand anything you are saying. It makes no sense and it isn't answering anything.

So, for everyone else, sidetone, Yes or No?

nmfire10:

I have been following this but I have no idea what you area asking for.
"Sidetone" means you hear the actual tones as they are sent such as MDC1200 or DTMF.

You say that the radio gives an audible indication beep as an indication the ID has been sent. I think you are saying you want the radio to emit a continuous alert tone from when the PTT is pressed until the ID is finished and it is OK to talk. I don't know of any way to make the 3180 do this (or why you would want to). The standard procedure is wait for the beep then talk.

nmfire10 · Post by **nmfire10** » Mon Apr 17, 2006 2:18 pm

In my limted number of years programming Motorola and Kenwood radios, a sidetone is a tone emited from the speaker while the digital PTT-ID is being sent to prevent the user from trying to speak. On Motorola radios, the sidetone is continuous from when you push the PTT button to when the ID is sent. If you have a 500ms pretime, then you have a sidetone for 500ms. There is an option to only have it beep once after the PTT-ID is sent but a continuous sidetone is standard.

With Kenwoods, I have only been able to make the radio beep once after the Fleetsync PTT-ID is sent. I want that beep to be continuous from keyup to the ID being sent.

You need at least 400ms for the PTT-ID to reliably get through a repeater. If I make the pretime be 400ms, it is too long for people to "wait for the beep" and they start speaking before it. Thats why I like the continuous pretime. It forces people to wait and the time can be as long as I want and nobody gets clipped. I get the feeling it isn't possible with these radios. If it was, you would definately know what I'm talking about.

Note, on both Motorola and Kenwood, for DTMF and QC-II, the side tone is simply the DTMF or QC-II tones coming out the speaker while they are being transmitted. Obviously, with MDC or Fleetsync, it isn't going to make a squawk out the speaker so it used a solid tone.

k2hz · Post by **k2hz** » Mon Apr 17, 2006 3:13 pm

OK, I follow what you want and I learned something I did not realize before. I looked at Motorola MDC1200 programming instructions for the MT1000 and you are correct that what they call "sidetone" is a tone that is transmitted during both the "pretime" and the actual data transmission.

I always thought it was just during the data.

I don't recall ever seeing this capability on a Kenwood so it would probably mean that a firmware change would be required from the factory to support it.

But, either way, the user is supposed to wait for the end of beep before they talk so I don't see the difference if is a long beep starting with PTT or a short beep at completion of ID. I personally find the longer tone annoying and suspect this is why Kenwood was not motivated to include this "feature".

nmfire10 · Post by **nmfire10** » Mon Apr 17, 2006 11:14 pm

If a user is used to having no tone and no wait at all for 50 years, it is not so easy. Teaching an old dog new tricks is difficult, which is why the continuous side tone is kind of like the electric fence.

n5tbu · Post by **n5tbu** » Wed Apr 19, 2006 4:46 pm

I have not played with this,but look at the special alert tone field,and play around,this might do it for you.
mod

Muggsy09 · Post by **Muggsy09** » Sun May 07, 2006 6:45 am

As far as I know, on my TK 880 and TK 3160, there are 2 types of "sidetones", none of which is a long beep like Motorola. With Fleetsync PTT ID type set to "OWN" the radio sounds 2 or 3 high pitched beeps, with PTT ID type set to "SEL" the radio sounds a slower low pitched 2 or 3 beeps. Thats all I have been able to get it to do. Now with DTMF PTT ID, different story, setting the First Digit Time to 400ms or whatever will sound a long beep, sounding like holding down a number key on a telephone. Not the same as Motorola, but close. Hope this helps.

~Muggsy~