730/830 Dual Band Single Remote Head Problem

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rescue7043
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Joined: Sat Mar 03, 2007 2:08 am
Location: Green Bay, WI

730/830 Dual Band Single Remote Head Problem

Post by rescue7043 »

I’ve got a Kenwood TK-730(G) TK-830(G) Single Remote Head Dual Band Radio. The radio is hooked up as follows. Remote Head à TK-830(G) à TK-730(G) It seems that no matter how I program the radio, I am not able to use it on any repeated channels. Main one being 151.250 (107.2) 153.86 (85.4) When I key up the Mic, it the radio says TX but it does not trip the tower. When I use my 5w portable to trip the tower, that works fine, but the mobile will not pick it up at all. Using anything repeated like that with the VHF does not work. If I put the radio into Talk Around Mode, then I can communicate with other portables, but not through the repeater.



Here are the following configurations that I have tried programming the radio as



1) Radio 1 – VHF Hi Radio 2 – UHF 730SD160F

2) Radio 1 – UHF Radio 2 – VHF Hi 830SD160F

3) Radio 1 – VHF Hi W/N Radio 2 – UHF W/N 730SD160F

4) Radio 1 – UHF W/N Radio 2 – VHF Hi W/N 830SD160F



The UHF is programmed as 450-470 MHz and the VHF is 150-174 MHz



If anyone can guide me to any fix for this problem it would be greatly appreciated. I’m fairly knowledgeable when it comes to programming Kenwood Radios, but this one sure has me stumped.



Thanks in Advance
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ohgary
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Post by ohgary »

what head do you have on the radio?

I think I would look at the antenna system, What is the SWR like, what is the power out. Taking to the handheld takes little to no power, talking to the repeater takes power. Are you sure what frequency you programmed?

You might want to program a channel with the repeater channel then program one with a reverse, that way you can talk to the handheld in duplex mode as if you were talking to the repeater. That will atleast validate the radio programming.
rescue7043
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Location: Green Bay, WI

Post by rescue7043 »

I do all the programming of Kenwood Radios for our ambulance service, and am fairly knowledgable when it comes to doing so. I know that all of the frequencies are in there correctly. Its not just that repeated channel that I have problems with, it any channel that is programmed into the radio that is talking to a repeater, it WILL NOT trip the repeater. (Yes, even when I am right next to the tower) I do not have an SWR meter to test the signal strength. I thought maybe it had something to do with the programming, etc.
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ka7wnf
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730

Post by ka7wnf »

do you have the correct PL tones programmed? also there is an adjustment for PL tone level. it might be too low.
rescue7043
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Location: Green Bay, WI

Post by rescue7043 »

I do have the correct PL tones programmed in there. I don't see anywhere in the programming that there is an adjustment for the tone level.

One thing that I believe I forgot to mention earlier is that the problem is not only can I not trip the repeater on any of the channels that require a repeater for use, if I trip the repeater on my portable (no problems there) the Mobile Radio doesn't even receive anything. I have to put the radio in both Talk Around and Monitor Mode to do any communicating on those frequencies.

I am just puzzled as to why the radio will work for any frequency that is non repeated, but not for ones that are. I'm wondering if the VHF Deck that is in my trunk is bad??
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ohgary
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Post by ohgary »

A couple of things to try.

instead of using the talk around button program up a channel with the tx and rx the same as your talk around.

Program up a channel with NO pl and see if you can hear the repeater, Can you hear the repeater if you hit the monitor button and key up with the handheld?

Program up a reverse pair and have the handheld talk to the mobile as if it was a repeater.

If it works in talk around your using most of the RF deck functions.
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Meatball
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Post by Meatball »

Well, if you can talk to other portables close by, but you can neither hear nor hit the repeater, it sounds like nothing is coming through the antenna port, and what you're hearing on the portable is the low power stages from the radio. Typically, the radio radiates enough singal, even if the PA is dead, to be heard in a nearby portable..and likewise there's enough radiation directly into the receiver from a transmitting portable.

What is the history of these radios? Could the PIN switching diodes be shorted?

Can you check output power with a wattmeter, or DC input power on a VOM or power supply meter?
rescue7043
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Location: Green Bay, WI

Post by rescue7043 »

Found out what the problem was!! Dual Band Radio UHF & VHF I connected my VHF antenna to the radio that was labeled TK-730 (VHF) Seems like the smart thing to do right?? I wasn't too worried yet about the UHF part of it, so I was still waiting delivery of my antenna. Turns out, whoever had this unit before me, must have taken the cases off the radios at the same time and when it was time to reassemble them, they swapped the metal casings (with the model #'s on the outside) So, when I thought my antenna was connected to the VHF radio, it was actually connected to the UHF. PROBLEM SOLVED!!

My biggest pet peeve is StUpId PeOpLe! If you are going to take something apart, you better be sure to put it back together correctly!


I appreciate everyone's input into this matter. I will be sure to return the favor to anyone needing assistance with the following units: TK-272G, TK-290, TK-790, TK-2170, TK-250 (and other 'alike' models)

Thanks again everyone!!

Matt
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ohgary
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Post by ohgary »

The fcc label is part of the non-removable radio casing. They would have had to swap the RF deck and all electroncis to switch the ID's.
rescue7043
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Location: Green Bay, WI

Post by rescue7043 »

Well then Kenwood screwed up when they placed the labels, because they are both on the top larger removable pannels on the radios.

MM
rwo978
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Post by rwo978 »

Had this very same problem when I installed my 730/830 DB in my truck, wouldn't hit repeaters. Re traced my wiring and connections and figured out the antennas were switched. OOOps. Was thinking you were having the same problems when I read your symptoms. The factory stickers should have been on the aluminum portion of the case, not the covers. Somone else must have moved them.... Glad you figured the problem out.
Ryan
KC0MOZ
rwo978@hotmail.com (use this e-mail, not other)
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Boomer740
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Post by Boomer740 »

This doesn't pertain exactly to the problem that this thread started with, but my question is about a dual-band single remote head configuration, so I'll ask.

I have a dual band system with a 160 channel 630 as radio one and a 32 channel 830 as radio two. The 830 was added to an existing, functional 160 channel remote-head 630 using the KRK-4DB kit. I double-checked the installation procedure with the manual, all my jumpers and chips are where they should be. Everything seems to work, but I have one minor problem.

When the new system is powered up the 830 emits a steady warning tone until one of the UHF channels is selected. Then the warning tone goes away and does not return until the next time the system is powered up. Both decks transmit and receive as programmed, the 830 is programmed and tuned for the 450 MHz band.

What causes the warning tone? Do I need to put the X24C16 chip in the 830 deck as well?

I went through several threads on this forum about dual band x30 setups, but couldn't find anything about this particular problem. Thanks for any help you might be able to provide.

Paul
rescue7043
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Joined: Sat Mar 03, 2007 2:08 am
Location: Green Bay, WI

Post by rescue7043 »

Simple answer... YES

If you do not have the 160 Ch. Chips in both the radio and the control head, it will not work properly. You've already got the chips in the control head and the 630, so just get one more and replace your 32ch chip with a 160ch chip in the 830 and you should be all set.
rwo978
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Post by rwo978 »

Channel upgrade is either all or none. If chips are mixed, problems occur.
Ryan
KC0MOZ
rwo978@hotmail.com (use this e-mail, not other)
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